How many times did you rewrite (part of) your PAO list? (and other more or less related questions)

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#1 5 January, 2017 - 05:37
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Joined: 8 months 3 weeks ago

How many times did you rewrite (part of) your PAO list? (and other more or less related questions)


When I began and I wanted to create my PAO list, I didn't manage to find enough memorable Persons according to the Major System.
Even worse, I couldn't find Actions for some of my Persons. Or two, three Persons were too close (for instance 3 football players…) to not mix the Action (in my opinion).

What I did then was create 10 themes for my P, 10 for my A, and 10 for my O, completely unrelated (same as http://mt.artofmemory.com/forums/which-pao-list-is-better).

I don't train/test myself very often, so I am not yet very "fluent" with my system.

I wonder now :
- if I have AO coherent with P, would I certainly do better, or it's just a matter of "learning the system" (but
- how many of you completely rewrite your list(s) (when/why)
- how many of you rewrite part of your list(s)
- how many of you change from major/Dominic to Dominic/major
- how long dit it takes you from the beginning of the creation of your list to have a satisfactory final version
And for people not doing it for competition:
- how long did it take you to "master" your system?
- how hard did you train?

5 January, 2017 - 15:44
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Joined: 1 year 11 months ago

I'm not using PAO, but I've redone my systems several times. I don't think that it's a problem to do that.

I started with Dominic System (person-action). Then, not knowing about the PAO system yet, I added objects with the Major System -- it just seemed like a logical extension.

Then I saw a video of Ben Pridmore breaking the world record in speed cards (24 seconds?). I then switched to a 3-digit Ben System, which has been redone a few times.

My system know is a modified Ben System that has images from 0-9 (vowels), 00-99 (consonant-vowel), and 000-999 (consonant-vowel-consonant).

To learn your system, you could print out 10 copies of this page (or for 3-digit systems), reloading it between printing each copy. Then "read" the numbers, converting them into images. Mark the images you miss each day, and review them. Since each number from 00-99 is printed once, you'll get a lot of practice converting each number.

9 January, 2017 - 02:09
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Joined: 1 year 9 months ago

my 00-99 PAO I have redone many times during the early days, now I rarely make large changes. The changes I do make, tend to be the look of a person, like when one outfit of a character in a series turns out to be more distinguishable than the one I had. Sometimes I also change the way an action is performed, like swinging an object, I first had a left to right swing, very easy like swinging a bat. Now it became more like you see at the Hammer Throw at the olympics.

My 000-999 system I am still rewriting, trying to find all 1000 persons that fit in a category system and don't cause confusion.

10 January, 2017 - 03:58
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Joined: 8 months 3 weeks ago

Thanks for your answer.

As I don't have many time for training, I am afraid to re-learn from scratch a new system. Especially a 3digits one. It took me a long time to do a PAO with 2-digits (with categories!), I can't imagine how you manage to do 1000 persons/items.

I will try to split my time in training with my old system and coming up with a new one. But I'm not sure I will completely "delete" my old system. I'm thinking more of a change in some categories…

12 January, 2017 - 19:21
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Joined: 2 years 5 months ago

I don't have much "time" for training. It is more an life style than certain "time". For instance choose one or two days a week, for instance, Tuesday and Thursday, and while walking on the street, or at work, try to convert images to numbers and back (or whatever you have to do), it takes time to develop the habit, but it works. I cannot do it everyday becayse it is tiring.
Using these systems are not "one habit" but a series of habits.
For instance. To convert numbers to images, a number of steps is needed.
First, perhaps first chosen day: Convert numbers (two or three) into letters. 5>L, 0>Z,C etc., according to your system. Since I have more than one letter for some number I work like this: 7>guttural, 6>fricative, 0>s sounds. This habits needs to be formed.
Second, perhaps in the second day of the week, to convert the combination of letters into an image. If you have been learning the connection numbers-images already, the brain will search for the right picture.
Then, when I discover I cannot recall an image, I check the table (in the phone or computer).
During this process, especially at the beginning, I discovered that some images would never appear, so I changed them, or confuse with others (i.e. similar words like fox-wolf-coyote). So, I am still adjusting the system. I don't think it is useful to consider a system definitive, because there will be always space for improvement.
In any case, to do what Josh Cohen says, to check the entire table and convert, everyday, is useful, and it does not take long time. Especially if you do just part of it everyday. I am not doing it now, because I am memorizing something else, but I try to do what I describe here.

12 January, 2017 - 21:02
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Joined: 3 months 3 weeks ago

Thanks for the advice everyone. I know I didn't start this thread, but I do have a question...
Do you guys use the same number system for cards? Or is it a completely different system?

12 January, 2017 - 23:42
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Joined: 4 years 10 months ago

You can use your number system for almost all of your cards. That is why it is recommended to start your number system first. But you still have to make some images for the cards system because not all the images for the number system will match the card systems.

13 January, 2017 - 03:15
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Joined: 3 months 3 weeks ago

Yeah, true. I saw some people using their number system, like spades was 1 to 13 and then diamonds was 21 to 33 etc. But I find that a bit confusing. Also, I saw others making a completely new system specifically for the cards. Like the 2 cards 1 image system, if you can call it that...so, how does one go about making it? Do you make a new image for every combination? Also, how does one come up with the image? I mean, do they use similar rules to the Dominic system or do they just randomly associate an image with that combo?

Lol, sorry for the lengthy post. Just wondering about a few things, I'm not that interested in speed memorising cards for competitions but I do want a usable and efficient system. I just think memorising cards is a good way to practise and refine the basics

13 January, 2017 - 05:06
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Joined: 1 year 9 months ago

I do use my number system for cards as well.

00-09 (Fringe characters) are the hearts (A-10)
20-29 (One Piece characters) are the diamonds (A-10)
40-49 (Marvel characters) are the clubs (A-10)
60-69 (Star Wars characters) are the spades (A-10)

Then for the Jacks I take 80-83, which are all famous men.
Queens are 85-88, which are famous women
and Kings are 90-93, which are historic people.

13 January, 2017 - 07:24
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Joined: 3 months 3 weeks ago

I love that you use One Piece! I'm also a huge fan. I also love that you managed to incorporate them into your number system. I randomly made a card system a week or two ago and based it on different anime characters. Bleach, One Piece, Naruto and Prince of Tennis. Anime that I love and know waaaay too well. Its also anime that has a lot of characters and flashy moves that I can use to expand into a PA system. Like everyone's different bankai from Bleach, and all the different ninjutsu or devil fruit abilities from Naruto and One Piece.

14 January, 2017 - 02:50
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Joined: 8 months 3 weeks ago

Thanks for all your answers.

For the cards I'm using for units:
01-09 (c) for clubs
21-29 (n) for spades
41-49 (r) for hearts
61-69 (d) for diamonds
and the next ten for 10, king, queen, jack, using French names : Roi (king), Dame (queen), Valet (jack), 10.
Thus I have 50 10♥, 54 Q♥, 56 K♥, 58 J♥.
So :
01-09+10,14,16,18 : ♣
21-29+30,34,36,38 : ♠
41-49+50,54,56,58 : ♥
61-69+70,74,76,78 : ♦

For spades I'm using the n (2 in my system), because I'm using the s (5*) for the faces of ♥.

14 January, 2017 - 11:37
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Joined: 3 months 3 weeks ago

I think I'm a bit confused, but I get the jist of it. I hope the system works out well for you and if it doesn't, I hope it at least gives you insight and inspiration for new systems and techniques. :)

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