Phenomenal memory good or bad?

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30 October, 2014 - 11:08
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If your goal is academic or job related, I'd try to complete the pmemory course if you already purchased it. If your goal is memory competitions you might find it to slow. Pmemory is a generic program that can be adapted to anything. A number of the other programs are designed for competitions, but require you to figure a way to convert them to other uses.

If you can get the pmemory technique (of recalling images based on 3 d, large and in color) go for it.

31 October, 2014 - 04:28
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jim15800 wrote:

There is a free ebook offered on the pmemory site that contains most of the techniques from the first 4 or 5 lessons.

Absolutely correct. All basic principles (theoretical material) described in the GMS Manual and it can be downloaded from the main site of Pmemory for FREE.

2 March, 2015 - 20:19
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I was very close to purchasing it until I read some of the manual pdf... I was using my iPhone but it looked like the URL was somewhere in the student area...not sure if I was reading private or public info but there quite a number of things that were red flags for me...the first thing was saying that under no circumstances were we to use emotion, action or bizarre imagery to make "connections" ... "It is unnecessary and slows down the process" the standard procedure is to just imagine one image next to or superimposed on the other for about 6 second. What? First off I make bizarre action pictures in my head and it makes them extremely strong associations andi do each one in about a second. To me, his method is contradictory to everything ive ever seen out there. Then elswhere he talks ALOT about scientific memory stuff that is apparently his theory on how stuff works. And I found several times he contradicted his own philosophy. Plus, frankly a lot of stuff sounded made up. I don't feel bad about not buying it now.

2 March, 2015 - 23:55
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Your post is the worst ever. You communist trying to belittle the capitalist. What have you ever done, accomplished or sold in your entire life ?

You admit he sells valid techniques. Your disagreement is he is a capitalist operating "legally".

Everyone sells something that already exists like APPLE at what you call "extornionate" costs.

A vendor can sell ANYTHING AT ANY COST. Its up to a buyer to get it or not. I HIGHLY recommend you buy this man and I also highly recommend APPLE products only. Get the best. Ditch the rest.

2 March, 2015 - 23:57
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It works. It works great. He terminology is outstanding just like APPLE has terminology that is unique. If you like Apple products then get this Memory course.

Else if you like free virus ridden products similarly you'll enjoy all other Awful useless memory courses.

Choose well my friend.

3 March, 2015 - 00:46
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It's okay for people to disagree, but please refrain from personal attacks. (Example: "Your post is the worst ever.")

Instead of getting angry, why not explain the techniques? Why do the 6 second superimposed images work better than bizarre associations? Most users here are open-minded. If you provide well reasoned arguments, it's likely that you will change some opinions.

3 March, 2015 - 09:29
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The reason "bizarre" images are NOT needed has been tested in psychology and found that it is "not needed" contrary to the advice in 99.9999% of Memory training books that scam people [ fill in the blank of YOUR guru here].

So pMEMORY is absolutely correct. Besides - trust me , even "Memory Champs" Don't have time for sitting around doing bizarre images else there is NO WAY IN HEAVEN or HELL you can memorise a deck of cards in under 45 seconds.

Summary:

1. pMemory is correct factually , scientifically, actually

2. pMemory has the right to charge as much as it wants. You have the right Not to buy it (and continue to use O'Brien et. al. - or others that "win" by doing it very different to their advice they trap you with )

3 March, 2015 - 09:57
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Who ever said you need a bizarre image to memorize? It helps a lot to make a "bizarre" image, but I agree that it's not necessary. If you have actually tried the Method of Loci, I think you will find that a bizarre image sticks much better than a boring one.

I personally am against buying pmemory because it seems like a total waste of money. Here's the thing: most people think that you need really good instruction to become good, but all you need is the basic technique and lots of practice. With memory techniques, once you get the concept, you can modify it to fit what's best for you. You do not need a $300 program to teach that. I read two books and one website on memory techniques, and after less than three months I was able to memorize a deck of cards in 38 seconds and anything else I ever needed to memorize. The point is, you just need to understand how the techniques work and the rest is practice. Seriously. That's how the best do it, and that's how the future best will do it.

3 March, 2015 - 12:29
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@beryl:
Some people use bizarre images and some don't. For example, see Dominic O'Brien's latest book where he downplays the exaggeration of images. In any case, you can still use bizarre images at high speed if that is the way you learned the images.

You said that the use of bizarre images has been scientifically tested -- could you link to specific studies about it? I'm interested in learning more about it.

I don't think there is anything wrong with the price. Everyone has to make a living. People have the right not to want to pay a certain amount for something though.

Also, are you affiliated with pmemory? It's okay if you are, but you should disclose any affiliation. Thanks...

3 March, 2015 - 14:13
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I repeat: it doesn't matter what O'Brien or others "say". Its not scientific and its incorrect !

You don't have time for bizarre images at high speed. You said something along the lines "you can use bizarre images at high speed if you learnt it that way". True. But you don't need to learn it that way - is the point.

As for scientific studies: look at Ken Higbee's one and only book on Memory (he strips away so much pseudoscience nonsense that its brilliant). You'll see him cite the science there relating to this.

As for pMemory: what it states is absolutely correct. Forget all these other so called un-scientific "gurus" from O'Brien to Buzan and all others. Besides they are of the old-school now. We've moved on from their sheer "slowness" many years ago by better more innovative more powerful practical methods - people that thrashed their records.

3 March, 2015 - 14:14
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Beryl,

I don't disagree with the amount of money pMemory charges. Its a great price. In fact, as a marketing professional, my advice to anyone with a memory product is to charge MORE for it...while you still can.

There might come a day when everybody automatically goes through training in Mnemonic systems ...no different than how language is taught to every human...or how every household has a TV and a computer.

The fact that the fundamental information is "out there" for free is 100% irrelevant no matter what your talking about. Anyone can find out how to fix a leaky faucet.yet there are still two dozen books you can buy that tell you how to go about the task. In every industry or subject the same situation exists.

Now Beryl, as far as the scientific correctness of pMemory...I'm going to reserve my right to feel squeemish about some of the things I read...they just didnt feel right to me based on what I have learned personally so far. I certainly could be wrong...but maybe its really just the fault of pMemory's presentation of the theory or material, not the actual facts behind it...for me the result was it scared me off, rather than strike a cord with me that said " ya that makes sense".

pMemory is going to have a larger customer base of people who are new to the Mnemory game, and starting from scratch...people who are already knee deep and looking for more are likely going to be turned off by pMemory because it appears to go way off the beaten path to teach the techniques....and that is what happened in my case.

As far as the "Bizzarre" images debate. Ultimately I think it comes down to what works for a person. Some people are naturally more vivid with their imaginations than others so maybe for them to picture a rabbit just sitting on a desk is no problem...for me I need the rabbit to bash his head through the table. As far as pMemory's claim that making bizzarre pictures is too time consuming....that again is a matter for the individual to decide. An easy work around that apparently the creator of pMemory didn't think of, which works for me, and I'll bet plenty others, is to have a set number of different actions Ive prepared beforehand that I can use on a peg....often times during a session it is the same action over and over....I don't have to think extra about anything. If I have a Peg word that is a toaster I know beforehand that there are a number of things I can do to interact with it based on some of the innate characteristics of it..if my peg word is teeth...obviously I'm going to have some chewing in there....sometimes action is just sort of built into the imagery, y'know?

If I could recommend anything to pMemory it would be this...teach both processes of visualization, Bizzarre and Static. The thing is, you cant be too strict and rigid with this sort of skill...and it seems like pMemory is trying to re-invent the wheel. There is simply too much that each individual adds to his or her own way of doing things....we create little rules for ourselves as we develop our skill..when I add such and such to an image it means this or that. etc.

...and Finally, for you to say that 99.99% of the memory courses out there are scams.....is frankly a huge problem in my book, as far as earning any credibility with me....and I'll wager it holds true for everyone else reading this....most of whom attained their skill from such courses.

My encouragement to you as far as defending a product, you are clearly quite attached to, would be instead of lashing out at every other product, give us something of substance that shows some of the strengths of the product, share your personal experiences, etc.

Respectfully,

Poe The Monk

3 March, 2015 - 15:38
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beryl wrote:

As for pMemory: what it states is absolutely correct. Forget all these other so called un-scientific "gurus" from O'Brien to Buzan and all others. Besides they are of the old-school now. We've moved on from their sheer "slowness" many years ago by better more innovative more powerful practical methods - people that thrashed their records.

Excuse me? But as far as I know, the top memory athletes are all using the same techniques Buzan and O'Brien taught. Ben Pridmore, 3x world champion, used one of Buzan's books to learn the memory techniques.

3 March, 2015 - 17:38
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beryl wrote:

As for scientific studies: look at Ken Higbee's one and only book on Memory (he strips away so much pseudoscience nonsense that its brilliant). You'll see him cite the science there relating to this.

Do know which chapter it is in? I have the book here next to me, but I haven't read it yet. Looks good from the table of contents.

beryl wrote:

Besides they are of the old-school now. We've moved on from their sheer "slowness" many years ago by better more innovative more powerful practical methods - people that thrashed their records.

Some people are using the same techniques to beat the old records. People are memorizing decks of cards in 30 seconds with simple 1-card systems.

3 March, 2015 - 21:09
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No. Ben Pridmore uses his own system. He does NOT use Buzan Nor O'Brien. Also O'Brien does NOT use, has NEVER used O'Brien . You don't seem to 'get it'. Experts often throw out "falsities that work to an extent" to prevent competition. Its a classic strategy as any warrior (competitor modernly) knows.

Here's the rule: do NOT do what gurus say. Do what gurus "Do".

In this case: forget any bizarre images.

3 March, 2015 - 21:11
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I didn't know that it is even possible to memorise a deck with "1 card PER 1 Loci" in 30 seconds.

Can you give me evidence of this (and preferably one that can be substantiated). I very very strongly doubt this - very very very strongly doubt it.

3 March, 2015 - 22:29
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beryl wrote:

Also O'Brien does NOT use, has NEVER used O'Brien . You don't seem to 'get it'. Experts often throw out "falsities that work to an extent" to prevent competition. Its a classic strategy as any warrior (competitor modernly) knows.

Here's the rule: do NOT do what gurus say. Do what gurus "Do".

I've always wondered whether Dominic O'Brien does use his own system. I've been openly wondering about that in the forum and blog for years, but after seeing Wang Feng's performance, and those of some other MAs (see below), I realized it is possible to get top scores in speed events with simple systems. He may have a more complex system, but not necessarily.

beryl wrote:

In this case: forget any bizarre images.

I suspect that some people use bizarre images and some don't. The very nature of mnemonic images leads to bizarre scenes. Maybe people could comment about their own personal experience below.

beryl wrote:

I didn't know that it is even possible to memorise a deck with "1 card PER 1 Loci" in 30 seconds.

Can you give me evidence of this (and preferably one that can be substantiated). I very very strongly doubt this - very very very strongly doubt it.

Sure... Boris Konrad does it with a competition score of 30.65 seconds.

Nightwalker: 29.96 seconds (maybe he can chime in about his system). He made extremely rapid progress with that system.

3 March, 2015 - 22:35
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You don't know people can memorize 30 second decks with a one card system? And a one card system is one image per card, not one card per location. Wang Feng used a one card system and memorized a deck in 24 seconds. In fact, a user on this forum (Nightwalker) has done it in 29 seconds in competition. You want video evidence? Skip to 2:45 on this clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-beGVq8Pko0. Please don't make such claims without properly researching first.

What you said about Ben Pridmore just proves my point. He learned the BASIC technique from Buzan's book and modified it to make his own system. All he needed was the basics and then he was able to build off of them.

3 March, 2015 - 22:56
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MCEVE01 wrote:

And a one card system is one image per card, not one card per location.

I think that Boris and Nightwalker use 1 image per location too. Maybe they will comment with more information.

4 March, 2015 - 08:45
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I know Boris uses one card per location, and Nightwalker told me that he switched to 2/locus after a while.

4 March, 2015 - 10:27
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SO.. I didnt catch this particular contradiction in my initial reading of the pMemory material... I was just looking at an illustration in there where it gives an example of a static association. A picture is superimposed into another.

To convey the idea they apparently used some software that had 3D objects in it to make this image... and literally put one inside the other, like both trying to occupy the same space....visually overlapping.

...uhm....Beryl...that is, in fact, a bizzarre image.

It also goes on to describe using EXAGGERATED sizes with your objects...Magnifying parts of an object to LARGE size and MEDIUM sizes.

It does give other pictures where to show what an association looks like in your head....to attach a lawn mower to a specific part of a milk carton....you mentally zoom into a close-up of...say the spout of a milk carton and picture a tiny lawn mower sitting there......so the image they have is basically a closeup of that part of the carton and then they cut and pasted a picture of a little lawn mower there...The instructions basically say to just sit there and imagine the two objects together like that....oh...and it says be vivid in your detail of the objects ( uhm...doesnt that take extra time too?)

It talks alot about 6 seconds as optimal time to make mental connections....so not sure how we got to talking about world class competition type speeds in this debate.

I don't know if I'm sold on this supposed static imagery theory...when I use an exaggerated action in my associations...It affords me to not have to be that detailed about everything else if I don't need to in a given situation. Action is powerful.

4 March, 2015 - 14:23
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This forum is very good. Now we're getting very productive discussion and Josh you are very good.

1. I learn/realize suddenly that any mnemonic is likely to be bizarre by its very nature. (I still hold onto the point that one doesn't have to try to make bizarre images as that slows one down).

2. I am VERY curious whether it is really possible to memorise a deck of cards with "1 image= 1 card = 1 location" (i.e. whereas O'Brian is 2 cards per location = 1 image, but that is not what I am talking about above)

4 March, 2015 - 14:28
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Josh or anyone here... [slight change of topic triggered by a post above]... I am curious...

What software have you seen out there (whether 3D or pMemory or any, even if you have ideas of using non-Memory software but modifying it for Mnemonic purposes) - that is good or great to use to memorise pictures (and be able to do that rapidly ) ?

4 March, 2015 - 14:53
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beryl wrote:

2. I am VERY curious whether it is really possible to memorise a deck of cards with "1 image= 1 card = 1 location" (i.e. whereas O'Brian is 2 cards per location = 1 image, but that is not what I am talking about above)

Why would it not be possible?
Take 52 loci, assign every card in the deck to one of these loci using your favorite coding technique. Done.

4 March, 2015 - 15:22
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beryl wrote:

Josh or anyone here... [slight change of topic triggered by a post above]... I am curious...

What software have you seen out there (whether 3D or pMemory or any, even if you have ideas of using non-Memory software but modifying it for Mnemonic purposes) - that is good or great to use to memorise pictures (and be able to do that rapidly ) ?

I am a graphic designer, and have a small print shop, so for me it was the availability of graphics packs which contain thousands of objects and images. There are both paid and free versions of such things. I use these to make flash cards...doing some now for my daughter. (She is the whole reason I got back into Mnemory stuff)

On the quick, you could also do a Yahoo search for "random objects" and it brings up graphics, many of which are bunches of objects all on one page..you can slide through page after page of those.

One pet project of mine is to try to master a way to use a random object type of page and super-impose mental images onto the actual images right in front of me, on the fly, while I listen to a lecture or educational show, etc. This is something I came up with back in 1986 in high school....but I never really finished figuring it out, till recently ( Ive been away from the Mnemory stuff for long time lol)

I still find myself needing to use bizarre imagery or actions to make the association stronger, or I forget some associations...but I'm finding that, as with anything else you have to create and adhere to little personal mental rules along the way, to help make things efficient. One thing that really helps keep up with what is being said is to just use 1 or two basic types of action in my imagery...like Piercing, or Exploding...then I don't have to think about what I'm going to create at every picture, plus it allows me to use other kinds of action, if my subject matter calls for an "action" to be integral to what needs to be remembered....I simply know that Piercing and Exploding are my own mental glue mechanisms, and are separate things.

4 March, 2015 - 17:28
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beryl wrote:

1. I learn/realize suddenly that any mnemonic is likely to be bizarre by its very nature. (I still hold onto the point that one doesn't have to try to make bizarre images as that slows one down).

That's basically how it works for me. Naturally combining my images often creates bizarre scenes, but I don't spend a lot of time on it. If I miss something during recall then I figure out a way to make the missed image more unusual.

Example: 4459 is Artur Rubinstein playing the piano (44) with a giant moth (59 = Alope Sphinx) inside that is getting hit by the piano hammers. If the 44 comes first, the second image is inside of the piano. If the 44 comes second, the first image is either playing the piano or on top of Rubinstein. If the 59 comes second in another sequence, it might have the first image riding the giant moth. E.g., 6659 is a rababa player (66) flying on the giant moth (59). These are all bizarre images, but their arrangement follows certain basic rules*, so it doesn't take much effort to create them.

(* Adopted from the Ben System: "I 'see' them arranged from left to right, or top to bottom, and interacting in various ways according to rules I made up as I went along, depending on which objects come together in what order.")

This is from You Can Have an Amazing Memory by Dominic O'Brien:

Over the years, I’ve had many people come to me to say they’re afraid that these sorts of techniques will be lost on them because they simply don’t believe they have the creativity they need to make the images stick. However, it’s really important to remember that the things you imagine should be within the realms of possibility; or at least hold some form of logic – so while they’re creative, they aren’t too fantastical. They might be a bit bizarre or unconventional, but in theory perfectly plausible or possible. Think back to the pen and soup scenario in Chapter 6. I admit it’s unlikely that anyone would ever use a pen to stir a bowl of soup; or that you might use the soup as ink for the pen. But it’s not completely impossible. Similarly, do you remember Beethoven on a mobile phone? Alright, Beethoven would not have had a mobile, but if he had had one, he’d probably have used it to call his agent. There is always some logic to the scenario, and yes, you need to be creative, but not superhumanly so.

I also want to reassure you by making a confession: now that memorizing by association is second nature to me, my mental images aren’t at all refined in every detail. Sometimes they are sketches with only the right colour and shapes; sometimes they are cartoon-like. I certainly don’t produce perfect visual representations. I conjure up ideas and scenarios – images that are just enough to make the connection in my head. However, for now, if you’re just starting out, I recommend that you fill in your images as much as possible: only once you’re really comfortable and confident in the practice should you start short-cutting.

beryl wrote:

2. I am VERY curious whether it is really possible to memorise a deck of cards with "1 image= 1 card = 1 location" (i.e. whereas O'Brian is 2 cards per location = 1 image, but that is not what I am talking about above)

According to Boris, it's possible. :)

beryl wrote:

What software have you seen out there (whether 3D or pMemory or any, even if you have ideas of using non-Memory software but modifying it for Mnemonic purposes) - that is good or great to use to memorise pictures (and be able to do that rapidly ) ?

Anki -- you can go as quickly or slowly as you would like, and it has spaced repetition built-in.

5 March, 2015 - 07:16
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wang feng did a lot of courses of memory (he told in interview)
if he did the phenomenal memory and got what i call as phenomenal score?

is it possible to learn in 1 hour per day only?

i want to train 15 min to 1:30 per day. most of days in week. i will make from 3 to 5 posts of my progress. and what i am doing.

7 March, 2015 - 20:38
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I am considering buying Anki [its $25 ! !!!! on the iPhone]... can you tell me more ...

1. Can I put snapshots of locations on it with my iPhone ?

2. can I "copy paste" large list of words in a foreign language in such a way that instantly each flashcard will be a different word (e.g. English-German) , using Excel to "order the words" first on a computer ?

3. How exactly do YOU use Anki and for what ?

4. How does Anki flash cards COMPARE to Mindmapping (e.g. buzan's iMindmap program)? How to use BOTH together so that long term memory is enhanced ?

8 March, 2015 - 03:19
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You may want to post in this thread:
http://mt.artofmemory.com/forums/mind-mappingmemory-techniques-combined-...

Mind maps plus Anki:
http://mt.artofmemory.com/forums/best-method-to-memorize-a-textbook-1667...

I've only used the Android and desktop versions of the software. You can add pictures and it will show them with spaced repetition intervals. There may be a way to show them in order too.

Here is a sample card -- there is a front and a back. My images are in the back, but you could put them on the front if you want. You tell the program how well you know the image and it sets a good interval for the next showing. The best way to get an idea about how it works is to download the free desktop version.

anki.example.card_.png

14 May, 2015 - 23:55
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To all people "talking" about pmemory without the slightest idea what it is:

I wonder if any of you actually read anything from pmemory.com ?

pmemory vs others:
http://www.pmemory.com/testimonials/compare/
(list of OLD testimonials of people comparing pmemory with other products they have tried. "old" because we stopped posting testimonials on the website years ago. Now students post them in the forum if they want to)
NOTICE: that they compare and talk about it from the experience! Not like most of you here.

The whole pmemory technology explained in the free ebook (163 pages).

(most of the people here, talking about it, do not know even basics of pmemory, yet they present their "arguments" like they do. Again, results guys. You can memorize some random digits and make stuff up. Wow. How about you Just read the book first and get anywhere in terms of your practical ability? Then at least we would be having relevant, reasonable conversation about it, based on something REAL.

and to be honest with all of you here. I have read most of your posts in this thread and it's just sooo boring to read. Some kind of old stuff that no one cares about. Do you really want to memorize deck of cards as a final goal and final achievement? Wow, what an achievement! :) How do you plan to use it in real life? and what is this bashing pmemory about? if you want to say something, please be specific, relevant and direct. No need to make BS accusations and "theories" that worth nothing. Can any of you memorize Entire Books?

if you are skeptical and believe it is a scam - go here:
http://www.pmemory.com/pages/skeptics/

If you want to see how final result looks like go here:
http://www.pmemory.com/testimonials/all/
(people demonstrating books they have memorized (video testimonials))

and again. Everything less than ability to memorize Entire Books - has no value in real life. If you can memorize Whole Books, now we are talking about something truly significant. Something that you can truly use in real life and in anything you do, NOT only because of the skill itself, but also because of the Brain shape that is required to do something like this.

We, at pmemory.com don't care about mnemonics. It is old stuff. ancient, actually. Cards memorization is a party trick that impresses no one, and absolutely useless in real life. Same goes for everything else you mentioned here. But ability to memorize ANY type of information, including Entire Books and having Brain Muscles/Shape that allows you to do that, so you can learn what ever you need when you need it - that's what pmemory is about. Real life application. Real life abilities. Not to mention that even this is just basics of pmemory level 1.

Pmemory is about exploring human/brain potential, that is based on practical results. Not some theories, but REAL, tangible results that can be applied in real life. Ability to install knowledge directly into your behavior for example. Forget about cards memorization. it's a joke. You can learn how to do it after few first lessons of pmemory.

most of you still got lost in the idea of isolated techniques. It is like talking about isolated workout exercises, like pushups or sit-ups. Pmemory is about FINAL SHAPE that allows you to do incredible things with your body, like back flips, etc. You can do your pushups till the rest of your life with your "LOCI" or what ever else - but you will remain overweight. It is very easy to get lost in the illusion of progress, like you are getting somewhere. You can waste years of your life on that and still get nowhere. Or you can just complete the pmemory training and get it over with. Pmemory is just the beginning anyway. Next levels is a way to go and that's the future. join the fun and evolution, or stay stuck in the old stuff that leads nowhere. There is soo much advanced breakthroughs going on right now in terms of learning, brain, memory, etc. (besides pmemory) That's where the fun is - incorporating all of that. At least this is what we do inside of pmemory.com and inside of our community.

No matter what you have to say or what you "think" - you can find answers at pmemory.com (when you talk about it). Read it, study it, try it - THEN talk about it from the experience. At least then it would worth something.

30 August, 2015 - 04:54
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Is there anyone here that bought and completed Pmemory course? Is it better than O'Brien, and other popular sources?

Pmemory site makes too much extraordinary claims, without providing any citations, and their testimonials aren't trustworthy. :D

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